Discussion on Science and Spirituality, God & Universe
Mr. William Bike and I discuss science and spirituality, religion versus spirituality, immortality, God and the Universe, and the mind and soul. This discussion might intrigue you.
Mr. Bike recently read my book. I was gratified with his feedback. He had homed in on the key aspects of the book. I did not know him from before. I asked him if he would do me the favor of recording a video on his feedback. He graciously agreed and I am thankful to him.
Mr. Bike has had a cherished career. He has won the highest award in Chicago journalism, the Peter Lisagor Award, four times. He is the author and editor of several books. Mr. Bike has made numerous radio, television, and print appearances concerning politics and government in numerous venues including CNN, Fox News, and the Chicago-Sun Times.
— Ravi Kathuria, Author, Spirituality Book, “Happy Soul. Hungry Mind.”
Full Interview — William S. Bike & Ravi Kathuria
Video Introduction
Ravi: Energy cannot be destroyed nor created, only can be transformed. I think it is the biggest spiritual statement. People ask me sometimes, do spirituality and science go together? Well, science is about truth and spirituality is about truth.
Video Discussion
Ravi: Welcome. Thank you for joining us.
Ravi: I am Ravi Kathuria, the author of a modern parable on non-religious spirituality called, "Happy Soul. Hungry Mind." We're joined here today with Mr. William S. Bike, who recently reviewed the book for me.
Ravi: Bill, thank you for joining us today. I appreciate you being here today.
Bill: Thank you for having me. Ravi, it's very good to be here.
About Mr. William S. Bike
Ravi: Thank you, sir. Bill, I understand you have a very cherished career, a long, successful career. So why don't you share briefly what you have accomplished?
Bill: Well, thank you very much for asking. I live in Chicago, Illinois, where I'm the associate editor for a local newspaper called Gazette Chicago. And I've been with the Gazette since 1983. In addition, I've written and edited several books. One is about street names on the near west side of Chicago called, "Streets in the Near West Side." And one is about running an election campaign called, "Winning Political Campaigns." In addition, I'm scheduled to have a book about the Chicago Cubs baseball team coming out later this year. I'm looking forward to that.
Ravi: Oh, wow. Congratulations on everything you have accomplished and all the best.
Bill: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Ravi: I know how it is to write books. They are almost like little babies. You get pregnant.
Bill: Well, you know, I hadn't planned on writing a book about the Cubs, but with the coronavirus last year, I found I had some more time. And so, it gave me some time to do it. And I think it'll be fun once it comes out.
Ravi: Wonderful. We wish you all the best.
Feedback on Spirituality Book “Happy Soul. Hungry Mind.”
God is the Universe. The Universe is God!
Immortality and Life After Death
Bill: Another revelation in the book is, we all know Einstein said energy can never be destroyed.
Ravi: Yes.
Bill: We humans are energy, so we can never be destroyed. So, if you think about it, that's actually scientific proof of life after death. That proof lets you worry less because whatever happens, we're immortal. We're energy, always going to be there. We're energy, we're going to be everywhere, so we also are the Universe. We're also part of God.
Bill: You take these big questions that mankind has wrestled with for millennia and you explain them in this book in a very simple way that sticks with you. I found that very, very meaningful.
Ravi: I appreciate you picking those two points. Einstein is the most renowned physicist that we know about and he's a scientist. When he declared matter cannot be destroyed nor created, energy cannot be destroyed nor created only can be transformed, I think it is the biggest spiritual statement.
Science and Spirituality
Ravi: People ask me sometimes, do spirituality and science go together? Well, science is about truth and spirituality is about truth. This statement that Einstein has made is the biggest spiritual statement, because once you understand that, and it's very difficult to comprehend that matter and energy can never be destroyed because we have seen it getting destroyed. But now we understand, it's not getting destroyed, it's only getting transformed. And from there comes immortality. Human beings are so focused on immortality, you begin to appreciate that we are immortal because we are energy and the Universe is just the energy and matter, it has always existed and will always exist. You cannot destroy the universe and you cannot create it.
Bill: Right, exactly.
Bill: People think science and spirituality are in conflict. I never felt that way in my entire life. Looking at the Universe and how it compares to God and looking at energy, shows us science and spirituality are actually one thing.
Ravi: Yes, and then if we extrapolate that, if the Universe has always existed and if the Universe is infinite. There is only one other entity that we can think about that has the same qualities.
Ravi: Which is why, whenever I think about God is the universe and the Universe is God — I love that you picked that as your first point — it is outstanding, and it can change the world.
Bill: Yeah, if people realize that, I think they would feel a little more comforted knowing that whatever happens, they're going to be around forever, and things are going to be okay.
Ravi: Yes.
Bill: They're part of God. How can anything be bad?
Journey from the Mind to the Soul
Ravi: Yes. So, what else did you find interesting in the book?
Bill: You say something to the equivalent of like the mind is like a bouncer and the soul is the star. You use the analogy of going into a club, like a dance club. You've got to get past the bouncer. But just because you get in the club, it doesn't mean you automatically get to meet the singer. There's still more work to do. You can, but you can't do that work until you get past the bouncer. So, the mind is like the bouncer and it's different than the soul. The mind deals with material things on this plane, you've got to get past that. You've got to get more in touch with your soul. But even when you do, you know, that's not the goal. It's only the beginning. Once you're in the club, if you want to meet the singer, you've got to figure out a way to get there.
Bill: Talking about the mind, I like what you say, no matter how good your life is, the mind compares you to others who have more. That's so true because we need to learn that our mind sometimes creates problems. We shouldn't compare ourselves to others because we're all on different paths. Yet people always want to compare themselves to other people. This person has more money. This person has a better girlfriend. That person has a better car.
Bill: We're all on different paths. And it's only something that our mind creates. The soul doesn't really care how much money we've got. You know, what kind of car we have. So, you know, the book is a good reminder.
Bill: You say in the book, when the mind is engaged, we experience the material world, both its pleasures and its pains. But when we get past the mind, we experience the soul and the spiritual bliss that it's capable of. That's just good advice.
Bill: You mentioned, too, that some people say the world is merely a simulation. We talked about Einstein before and Shakespeare said that too. Shakespeare said the world is a stage and the people in it are merely players.
Bill: We live in the material world. We've got to deal with it. But it's not the most important thing. Getting in touch with our soul is the most important thing. You say in the book, enjoy the world, but don't be addicted to it. It's a very good point. People think that they can't both enjoy the life of the mind and spiritual bliss, but they're not in conflict. Your mind enjoys the world. Your soul enjoys the bliss. It's like having comfortable shoes and a comfortable shirt. You can have both. They're not in conflict.
Ravi: Yes. Absolutely. Thank you for picking up these points. I love listening to them.
Ravi: The points you make, that you have honed on, are really important points. We become trapped by our own minds.
Bill: Right.
Spiritual Dimension
Ravi: We have to understand the mind is very important. We need the mind to interact with the material world. But that is the purpose of the mind, and there is a dimension that exists beyond the mind. The spiritual dimension exists in all of us, but most of us are not tapping into it.
Bill: Exactly.
Ravi: It's like we all have the ability to swim, but only a few of us actually go through and learn swimming. Everyone can swim.
Bill: And only a few of us, who are in the lake, actually go to the center of the lake. So, you know, once we're in the water, we're not done. We've got more to do.
Ravi: We got more to do. When we quiet the mind, and then this energy which is within us, this permanent, everlasting energy that is there in all of us, we call it the spirit or the soul or the atma or whatever name, we begin to experience that. That is so powerful, that is the most amazing aspect of life. That is the journey from the mind to the soul.
Ravi: I love spirituality, I love talking about it because it is non-religious, it doesn't matter what religion someone follows. Every one of us is spiritual.
Religion versus Spirituality
Bill: Well, I think that's a good segue to our next point, because another analogy you make, and by the way, you can tell I love the analogies because they really make things simple. You have one of the characters say religion is like ground transport to the airport. And so that means religion is not the end, it's the means. Once you reach the airport, once you reach your soul, you don't really need the means of transport, which is religion anymore.
Bill: Religion is not spirituality. More and more people are realizing that. More and more people describe themselves as spiritual instead of religious. The modern polls show people do not really get involved with organized religion to the extent they used to in the past. Yet they all feel that they're spiritual. Whether they read your book or not, I think more and more people are understanding this.
Bill: Some religions put down materialism, but as we talked about before, you say, enjoying the material world and spiritual bliss can coexist. That's a message most people are looking for. Nobody wants to give all their material possessions away and go live in a hut in the desert. But we all want to soothe our souls. So, yes, you point out, in fact, if we're happier in the material world, it helps our spiritual progress. And again, the analogies you used are just great.
Ravi: Yeah, great point, Sir. Great point. Thank you for picking that up. Many times, people find religion or spirituality because they're going through troublesome times. But what happens is as soon as their troubles lift their interest in religion or spirituality goes away.
Bill: Exactly. Just like you don't care about being on the bus to the airport once you get to the airport.
Ravi: That's right. So, the idea is to pursue spirituality when you're happy in life because that progress is real progress. It's like if you end up in the emergency room and then you say, I'm going to start exercising, it's a little too late.
Bill: Exactly.
Ravi: The first thing you need to do is stabilize yourself and get yourself out of the emergency room, the best time to exercise is not when you're sick, it is when you're healthy.
Bill: Exactly.
Ravi: Spirituality is the same thing.
Ravi: I love the points that have resonated with you because you're absolutely right, we do not have to retire to the Himalayas. We are very blessed to have very comfortable lives in the modern era. We don't have to grow our food or bring our own water. Everything is available when we walk into a grocery store and we have all the food we need. Most of us who are living in developed countries don't have to walk 20 miles to bring water.
Ravi: We don't have to give up all our comforts and go sleep on a rock bed. We can sleep in our comfortable beds because comfort has nothing to do with spirituality.
Bill: Right.
Ravi: Spirituality is about quieting the mind. If we quiet the mind, the soul will shine through, it is natural, it is automatic, it has no choice like the sun will shine through if the clouds depart.
Bill: I think we all want to quiet our minds these days. It's a busy world, and so I think that's a good message.
Ravi: Yes. Thank you, sir. I appreciate the feedback that you have given, the points that you picked, this is music for me to hear. Thank you.
Book Writing Style
Ravi: Did you like the style? I ask people that because the book is a conversation between Travis and Rishi, and sometimes, it's a little contentious. They have their own challenges. Is that a good style? Or should it have been a plain narration? In most spiritual books, there's not really much discussion or debate going on. “Happy Soul. Hungry Mind.” is written as a conversation.
Bill: I think that's actually why the book works because it's a conversation between two characters. It doesn't come off like a lecture. I don't think anybody wants a lecture. We had plenty of those in school and we get them from our bosses and whatever. I don't think anybody wants a lecture anymore. It's two friends talking. But you know what, as the reader, you're the third friend. You know, you're not saying anything, but you're a part of the conversation. You're learning. I think it's a great construction. And if it had just been a lecture, I don't think it would have worked. The conversation with the two friends, like I said, you're the third friend as the reader, and that's pretty nice.
Ravi: I appreciate that feedback because I have wondered about that. I like to write stories because it helps, the backdrop of a story allows you to test the concepts much more thoroughly. If you're just writing about the concepts and there is no challenging voice, nothing to challenge it, you can write whatever.
Bill: You've got the two characters and, the one is telling the other about these things. But the second character doesn't just automatically accept it, he argues a little bit. If you're reading the book and you feel some of the same things the character feels and you're arguing too, you don't have to do it in a vacuum because the character is doing it for you.
Easy Read. Enjoying Life.
Ravi: Yes. Absolutely. I love everything you have shared. If you were to meet someone who has not read the book and you had to tell them in 30 seconds why they should read the book, what would you recommend?
Bill: Well, it's not a difficult read. That's what people want to want to know about a book right off the bat. It's only about 250 pages and it's got lots of charts and call-outs that really make it easy to understand. The charts and the call-outs highlight the important points. Those highlights make it easy to read. The book gives you guidance on not only on how to live life, but how to enjoy life. So many people aren't enjoying their lives these days, even though, like you say, materially, we're doing better in the developed world than anybody in history ever has, but a lot of people aren't enjoying their lives. We see a lot of conflict between people these days. This book can be helpful, and I think people need something like that.
Ravi: Well, you're a wonderful man, Sir. I appreciate it. You made me feel so good about my book.
Bill: Well, thank you for having me on this broadcast. Very much appreciate it. And as you can tell, I enjoyed the book very much and I intend to refer to it in the future as well.
Ravi: Thank you, Sir. Thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.
Bill: Okay. Goodbye.
Ravi: Goodbye.
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